THE GOLDEN POT
gold news & views - charts & more
not so much a forum but rather a news archive
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Sharefin/Directions -- auspec, 18:15:39 01/20/02 Sun
Of course your analysis of where most of the gold has landed is fully correct, and because of that, gold has been micro-managed at the margin. It never made sense to me that CBs were merely reshuffling the deck chairs, although that has happened, especially with the EU coming into fruition. Those who proposed this absurdity lost great credibility. Frank Veneroso based much of his work on gold flowing to ankles, wrists and necks, BUT, many tills have also been raided by 'corparate' entities as well. Public treasures leaving en mass, some for adornment, but some also for elitist coffers, no doubt. This is the way of all bailouts, and we have a big one coming. The money trails may be arduous to follow but they will eventually lead to Snideley and Co. Gold in the ground is flowing from weak hands to strong hands, partially/mostly enabled by the continued flow of official gold to market for management at the margin. Who will be left with paper gold and who will walk with certified bars? It will be tough to follow because gold leaves the faintest scent of all. At the very minimum these geniuses had full use of public gold to enrich themselves prior to sending it to market. How much gold can 1 person carry? When one begins to understand the criminal depth of current world financial management the picture shows those who would never hesitate to become heavy metal fans. We're now talking Cayman Islands and the multiple other off-balance-sheet havens. These people are thieves, plain and simple, and thieves know full well what has the most value. Cynical? Hell, yes! Watch it unfold....
HTML? Yes I saw the direcions, but am directions/impaired/averse. Don't worry though as I will come to the plate sooner or later. Thanks for this great place, I think it will be a lot of fun and most educational!
kapex/Hugo Salinas Price -- auspec, 17:34:48 01/20/02 Sun
Yes, I have also hammered this message home for quite some time now. It's the blatant resource grab, and they've zeroed in on the Mother Lodes, no need to salt those mines. This is getting pretty high profile w HSP and you will clearly note in his article the implied jeopardy he is under. Of course as this becomes fairly common knowledge he becomes much more unreachable. Do you think there is one iota of a chance this piece is circulating in Latin America, especially Argentina. We need a few more Latin tempers on our side!
HE/WE NAILED IT!! Agreed!
auspec -- Sharefin, 16:36:43 01/20/02 Sun
Have a read of this page
How to insert HTML
auspec -- Sharefin, 16:33:03 01/20/02 Sun
Everywhere I go I see people with jewelry.
From little kids to old rich folks, they all have gold jewelry drapped over their necks, hanging from their ears and adorning their wrists & ankles.
Lots of it is of the watered down variety but now and then you come across the Mr. T role models who carry many ounces of the pure stuff weighting down their necks.
Multiply these people by many millions - even billions and you will find where much of the gold of old which was stockpiled and has since been leased on has gone.
Look at all the Indians who wear nothing but the finest gold.
A billion people wearing an ounce each would equate to approx 31,000 tons.
So a billion people with 4 ounces each would equate to all the gold ever found.
Or 4 billion people with an ounce each.
Methinks that jewelry makes up for the greatest percentage of gold - far greater than reserves or hoards.
A few bright minds & excentric individuals have hoarded away what they can afford.
A few goldbugs have picked up the few ounces they can afford.
But much of it is in the form of 9 or 14 carat junk jewelry never to be returned back to pure gold.
Most junk jewelry has a price factor of 8 times plus content so gold will have to go up to many thousands of dollars before this junk is worthy of being melted down.
You only need to go to the local mall where a dozen different jewelers have display cases bulging at 50% off.
Just look at the young 12 year old girls admiring the pretty baubles and you'll see where the greatest percentage of gold has been whisked off to.
Go in to a major shopping center and watch every person to see who has gold jewelry adorning them & who hasn't and you'll be surprised.
There is far more gold under our noses than we give credit for...^o-o^
Hugo Salinas Price on Gold -- auspec, 13:07:44 01/20/02 Sun -- kapex, 15:51:50 01/20/02 Sun
Well!
It's nice to see someone has been reading my posts!
YAR!!!
Couldn't have said it better myself!
Wait a second. I Already Did say it!
This is Exactly what is going on IMHO.
I have been hollering about it for a year now.
U.S. dollar likely to test upper limit against the yen this week -- Donald, 13:38:54 01/20/02 Sun
click here for Japan Times story dated January 21, 2002
Hugo Salinas Price on Gold -- auspec, 13:07:44 01/20/02 Sun
It is my conviction that the shady characters who are behind the scenes in this world, and who really run things, a la Disraeli’s “Coningsby”, have a plan which they have been carrying out over the past decades. These are the individuals who give orders to Central Banks, of their own, and of other nations. They have the power to do so. We have been witnessing a new way of accumulating gold, never before seen in the world: accumulation through mass-deception, through manipulation of the mass-mind, which was never before possible.
These unidentified characters have used the dollar to accumulate wealth, and they have been going after the gold. They can well see, that the present international monetary system is doomed. It was a visible fact to them, long ago. If we, the little spectators, can see this is happening, it most certainly cannot have escaped the observation of the movers and shakers in this world. We private, small-time spectators count for little, and though we can see what is happening, we have not the means to convince the masses. Perhaps the world rulers will deal with us, one by one, at their leisure. Or perhaps not. Don’t mess with the Mafia, and they will let you alone. Killing is messy and preferably avoided. Let us hope this is the outcome.
A new system will have to come into existence, when this present system passes away in disorder and revolution. And lo and behold! Gold will figure prominently in it. Gold amassed while the Central Banks of the world were being coerced to dishoard it. The propaganda regarding the “death of gold” has been effective. It has allowed the Central Banks to sell off their stocks, painfully acquired through centuries, at cheap, very cheap prices, to the characters operating in the shadows. In a sense these past decades have been one long bankruptcy sale on the part of the world’s Central Banks, where the banks have been selling off their best assets - to their owners! - at rock bottom prices. Of course, at fire-sale prices, otherwise, it would be next to impossible to accumulate it in any quantity.
Comments: This guy is very high profile and it's wonderful to have him be so outspoken. Article is at GE
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_02/salinas012102pv.html
{I'm still working on the link mechanism}
President of Newmont predicts rise of $25 to $50 per oz. -- Donald, 09:05:43 01/20/02 Sun
click here
Gold up at $1700 -- Sharefin, 07:47:41 01/20/02 Sun
Gold at $1700 an ounce?
TB2000 -- Sharefin, 05:34:23 01/20/02 Sun
TimeBomb 2000 Gold & Silver
auspec -- Sharefin, 03:00:49 01/20/02 Sun
Tread lightly but carry big gold sack.
Elitist follies make many smiles soon.
NWO -- Sharefin, 02:59:10 01/20/02 Sun
UN Tribunal for World Debt?
Numbers/Sharefin -- auspec, 21:24:13 01/19/02 Sat
"These days I would guesstimate that of the approx 135,000 tons of gold in existence that the various Governments of the world are now only holding approx 15,000 tons or approx 11% of total stocks."
Comment: One really has to see through a lot of smoke to see official #s this small, can it be? The European #s should be real as would be China, Russia etc. The US and International MFs #s are highly suspect at best. You're quite likely fully correct as I think back on pioneer FV's numbers, but it is really stark to see it up close and personal. I bought his gold book projections that portrayed the end case scenario and it was probably 1998 when he came out with it, 3-4 yrs further into the game now.
i believe FV had one big flaw in his numbers and thinking. He constantly used calculations that projected loaned/leased gold as having to be paid back and leading to his rubber band projections. apparently, everyone that ever borrowed money from the good professor paid him back in full. I have the 'oops, sorry' theory, of course it will not be paid back! politicians and bankers, when caught, do it all the time. Like Steve Erkel; "OOPS, did I do that?" It's not their gold! It has likely gone from public hands {ours} to private hands [theirs}, as well as to market demand. They really didn't screw up as they now have the gold, at least in part. The 'resource grab' includes the richest deposits of gold ever, CB coffers!
FV, bless him, said one of the most bullish cases possible would be if the USG, or others, were found to be suppresing gold. They are, beyond a shadow of a doubt. They're backing GS and JPM/C and all their other utility instruments and the whole place has become a cess pool. Why would Artie Anderson risk the consequences of shreding subpoenaed documents? Because the consequences would be even worse if the documents were NOT shred. GATA thinks Enron will lead into the gold fraud, hopefully so. Common, decent, and hard working people cannot imagine what their criminal and unconstitutional govt has been up to. "let's just not go there." Hell, people on these 'honest money' sites don't even want to 'go there'. I honestly believe that many/most of our govt officials don't even know how bad it really is, they're probably not on a 'need to know' basis.
"..astounded by our gains"? Very likely, but also astounded at the level of deception that brings us these gains. I am no Soros fan but will rephrase one of his most famous quotes: Detecting and positioning oneself to profit from elitist' folly brings a dual reward, financial as well as doing one's patriotic duty.
Cheerio!
revolutiono -- offal, 20:42:42 01/19/02 Sat
my philosophy is pretty simple
i want to bring fiat money to an end, and replace it with a fractional gold, silver and platinum standard.
i tried politics, but the lesson learned is that they are generally the same bunch. the major party's are bought off.
the internet is pull media where i can visit sites that i want, and share info.. this is crucial. It's not like television where the message (lie) is pushed into your face
i want a better world for my young family, not a place that encourages forever indebtedness, and that's where we are today.
bring on deflation, bring it on
my salary is half of what it used to be. today i work in a service job, whereas two years ago, i worked in a manufacturing job. the mfrg job is now in china
so bring on deflation. deflate, deflate, deflate
i ain't buying a house at these prices, forgetaboutit
auspec -- Sharefin, 20:00:54 01/19/02 Sat
And when you think about the gold situation and Frank Veneroso's numbers basically the same situation applies.
The stockpiles have depleted and stocks have been double dipped & double counted.
The facade that vast resources of both these metals exist is nothing more.
Sure silver has an industrial aspect, which has depleted and forever removed the ounces available.
But gold also has been depleted not to disappear forever but rather to go to strong hands, which don't want to sell.
If you were to go back to the 1940's you'd find that most all gold stocks across the globe were in Government's hands and thus you could say in an accessible stockpile, they probably had close to 90% of all stocks.
Cumulative World Gold Production
These days I would guesstimate that of the approx 135,000 tons of gold in existence that the various Governments of the world are now only holding approx 15,000 tons or approx 11% of total stocks.
Their reserves are way under par due to the hedging game and at the current rate of disbursement would be gone in a matter of years.
So gold stocks are far different from silver stocks but the disbursement is there the same.
I believe holders of these metals going forwards are going to be astouded by their gains.
Sharefin/Buffet's Silver -- auspec, 19:33:47 01/19/02 Sat
You are absolutely right about the relatively small size of Buffet's silver, it could only be an obstacle 'at the margin', much like BoE gold in fact. It is good to think it through ahead of time because it will come back into play sooner or later. Its effect could be mostly psychological. It is pretty illuminating to think he has 1/4 of the known above ground silver yet it isn't going to last long in the current market.
I ran the same Q's by Ted Butler for his input and he replied as follows:
Thanks for your note. I think you have it right - if WB still held the silver he bought, it would be an overhang for the market. I'm of the opinion (and no one knows for sure) that every ounce of Buffett's silver has been leased out, helping to satisfy the deficit over the past few years. He now owns silver in paper form only. As such, his "holdings" represent no threat to the market, if my speculation is correct. Please see - http://www.gloomdoom.com/12-25-00.html END
Thanks for your thoughts, Sharefin,
auspec
gold posts -- offal, 18:38:40 01/19/02 Sat
sharefin and donald. thanks for links
auspec, emoticoms are a neat little addition.
i'm no silver officianado. it's just my opinion, but i think the December run on silver was capped by ever more leasing. it could happen again.
i also think that the RSA rand and Canadian dollar are being artificially depreciated in order to supply more (cheaper) gold and silver to satisfy the 'shorts'. This thing is so huge it's why the US Fed and Treasury are 'strong dollar'
i'm impressed that there's this thing called the internet. with it, we were able to witness mind boggling criminal endevours (ie SM bubbles, Enron), Now we are able to use it to hasten the movement to honest money.
Investors piling into South African gold stocks -- Donald, 17:40:24 01/19/02 Sat
click here
Debt -- Sharefin, 17:35:55 01/19/02 Sat
A Blasphemy Spreads: Debts Are OK
There are not many issues on which the Bible, William Shakespeare, Benjamin Franklin and the modern mass media offer nearly identical social criticism. On the matter of saving money and going into debt, however, they speak in one voice.
The New Testament advises readers to "owe no man anything," and Polonius famously said in "Hamlet," "Neither a borrower nor a lender be." Should people fail to heed these admonitions, as they often do, they risk both their morality and their independence, becoming "a slave to the lender," Franklin said, paraphrasing Proverbs. When entire societies ignore the warnings, they forfeit future prosperity for conspicuous consumption.
This is the essence of the most widespread worry about the American economy today. After having taken on ever higher levels of credit-card and mortgage debt to finance arguably the highest material standard of living the world has ever known, Americans will eventually have to cut back, many economists and writers have argued. The economy will suffer for years as people save more and spend less.
In recent months, however, a growing group of economists have begun to challenge these conventional worries. To them, Americans' spending habits threaten the nation's economic fabric no more today than they threatened the moral fabric in Ben Franklin's time. Debt is a natural part of economic life, these economists say, and its level is not high when compared to the population's wealth.
This view has won new followers in academia and on Wall Street over the last year, which brought precisely the kinds of events that might spook people about their finances. But despite a recession, the worst terrorist attacks in the country's history and a war of undetermined length, consumers have continued to increase their spending levels, although modestly.
A spate of research has helped the argument as well, chiefly by putting current debt and savings levels in the context of wealth rather than income. Prodded by Alan Greenspan, two economists at the Federal Reserve recently discovered that the much- discussed decline in the personal savings rate in the 1990's occurred almost exclusively among the richest 20 percent of Americans, who also registered large gains in stock holdings and home values.
Another economist, Jonathan Skinner at Dartmouth, likes to show people a chart that plots people's net worth - assets minus debts - relative to their income. The graph suggests that no group of Americans is worse off than they were a decade ago, once their homes, mutual funds and retirement accounts are taken into account. In 1998 households with the median income were worth about twice their annual salary, up slightly from 1989.
And a handful of Wall Street economists, picking up on other research from the Fed, have begun arguing that the decline in the official savings rate - from 8 percent 10 years ago to roughly zero now - is more of an accounting fiction than an actual trend. Last year Lehman Brothers tweaked the worriers by titling one report, "Are U.S. Households Saving Too Much?" One section was called "Forget Ben Franklin."
"If the stock market collapses, then you have a real problem for the consumer, but if it doesn't collapse, then forget about the low savings rate," Ethan S. Harris, a senior economist at Lehman Brothers, said. "It's not an issue."
This soothing argument has received a helping hand from another discipline, too. In 1999 Lendol Calder, a cultural historian at Augustana College in Rock Island, Ill., published "Financing the American Dream" (Princeton University Press). Mr. Calder said he had set out to trace the troublesome history of consumer debt but had ended up finding much more concern about debt than harm caused by it. In addition to the Bible's and Ben Franklin's warnings, he came across headlines like "Never Have So Many Owed So Much" (U.S. News & World Report, 1959) and "Debt Threatens Democracy" (Harper's, 1940). In fact, he said, debt's main role has been allowing people to buy items they could otherwise not afford.
The upshot was a book in which he tried to debunk what he called "the myth of lost economic virtue": the mistaken notion that previous generations had wisely practiced frugality while the current one was spending its way toward trouble.
"We don't need to be alarmed by Chicken Littles running around saying, `The sky is falling, the sky is falling,' " Mr. Calder said. "The sky hasn't ever fallen."
Of course, debt really is a larger part of the economy today than it was in the past. People pay for everything from groceries to college tuition with their credit cards. Banks have used risk-management computer programs to expand the portion of the population to which they are willing to issue credit. The number of Americans owning a home, and therefore having a mortgage, and the size of the average mortgage have both soared.
Even the anti-Chicken Little crowd acknowledges that at some point debt can become unmanageable for a society. "There is a limit," Mr. Calder said, "but we don't know what that limit is."
The idea that the current debt level poses few if any risks remains a minority view. To many economists, Americans are already overextended. From 1991 to 2001, household liabilities more than doubled, from $3.9 trillion to $7.9 trillion, according to Economy.com, a research firm in West Chester, Pa. Despite the rise in unemployment, people have continued to take out new loans in the last year, thanks largely to low-interest rates and interest-free auto loans.
Payments on those debts will come due no matter what, even if the stock market collapses or home values and incomes fail to rise. People making less money are especially vulnerable because a single problem, like a layoff or Enron-like collapse of retirement savings, can cause them to fall badly behind on mortgage and credit-card bills.
As soon as debt stops increasing at its recent rapid pace, the more pessimistic economists say, the brisk economic growth of the late 90's will be impossible.
"In some sense, what drives an economy forward is a willingness to extend credit and a willingness to take on a debt," said James K. Galbraith, a economist at the University of Texas. "But one needs to distinguish between a general aversion to debt and the issue of whether the pace that debt is being accumulated can be sustained."
"My view is that debt is at the point that households are likely to retrench for a substantial period of time," Mr. Galbraith said, voicing a concern of many economists.
The optimists' response begins with the government's official savings rate. It measures the amount of every dollar of income that people put away instead of spending, and it has fallen from almost 12 percent in the early 80's to 8 percent a decade ago and to about zero now.
But the figure excludes gains on assets like land and stocks, which have been plentiful in recent years. At the same time, it subtracts the taxes people pay on such gains from their income, effectively lowering their savings rate. So if a person buys a stock for $10, sells it for $100 and pays $20 in tax on her $90 gain, she appears in the government accounts to have lowered her savings by $20 when she has actually raised it by $70 as far as she is concerned.
The increased popularity of 401(k) plans instead of pensions and the decline in the number of companies paying dividends to their shareholders also skews the savings data, Mr. Harris of Lehman Brothers said.
The research that has gotten the most attention was done by Dean M. Maki and Michael G. Palumbo, who were both economists at the Fed when Mr. Greenspan suggested they combine two data sets to break down the savings rate by income group. They concluded that the rate fell sharply in the 90's for the 20 percent of Americans with the largest salaries, fell slightly for the next fifth but did not fall for the rest.
The explanation, they said, is the long bull market, which allowed affluent people to increase their spending by dipping into their stock portfolios. "The wealth effect is the story behind the decline in the savings rate," Mr. Maki said.
There are valid methodological reasons for the Commerce Department to tabulate the data the way it does, economists say, but one result is that the savings rate makes households' balance sheets look worse than they are. "The steep drop in the U.S. personal savings rate over the last decade has fueled speculation that Americans are spending recklessly," a report by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York concluded a year ago. "These fears are not well founded."
With joblessness likely to continue rising, the coming year will provide a good test. Recessions have a way of resolving debates like this one.
Cobra -- Sharefin, 17:29:42 01/19/02 Sat
Also these ratios:
Gold/Dow Ratio
Gold/SPX Ratio
The turn is in.......
Cobra -- Sharefin, 17:24:22 01/19/02 Sat
The top is in - it's just a matter of holding on now.
Theoretically the pace should pick up as we accelerate through the curve.
So many gold charts are pointing the way going forwards that I do believe the cabal will lose their grip on the situation.
Goldbugs are going to have their day.....
Dow/Gold Ratio -- Cobra, 17:13:29 01/19/02 Sat
That was From Cobra TO Sharefin..RE: Dow/Gold Ratio
More volatility -- Sharefin, 17:12:58 01/19/02 Sat
Moody's May Change Credit Ratings Faster, More Often
........."This is going to cause something of a firestorm," said Louise Purtle, U.S. credit strategist at Deutsche Bank. "There are so many aspects of the financial markets which are structured around ratings.".........
US Stocks -- Sharefin, 17:11:12 01/19/02 Sat
Investors Say Valuations Are Too High: U.S. Stocks Outlook
Dow/Gold Ratio -- Sharefin, 17:11:02 01/19/02 Sat
Thanks my friend.....the trend is Our friend also.
The Public I -- Sharefin, 16:54:42 01/19/02 Sat
The Public I
Charts to view -- Sharefin, 16:48:50 01/19/02 Sat
Can Greenspan Bring Back The Bubble
More charts
Tallbear -- Sharefin, 16:43:06 01/19/02 Sat
Just like the Romans had their day so to shall go the way of the US.
And to add some comfort - the top is already in.
Sell the US & buy physical.(:-)))
American Patriotism -- Tallbear, 16:09:43 01/19/02 Sat
It is refreshing to see Americans stand up for their beliefs in Kitcoville. Lefty Canadians are cowering with the US Marine presence. We are the world's leaders.
IMF Statistics -- Sharefin, 16:08:40 01/19/02 Sat
TrimTabs Liquidity -- Sharefin, 16:07:22 01/19/02 Sat
TrimTabs Liquidity News
PAUL KRUGMAN -- Sharefin, 15:57:53 01/19/02 Sat
A System Corrupted
January 18, 2002
A System Corrupted
By PAUL KRUGMAN
Clearly, Larry Lindsey shouldn't have described the Enron affair as a "tribute to American capitalism," and Paul O'Neill shouldn't have declared: "Companies come and go. It's part of the genius of capitalism." Both the top White House economist and the Treasury secretary have been excoriated for their callousness. But did they have a point?
Yes, they did - but their remarks suggest that they still don't understand what happened. The Enron debacle is not just the story of a company that failed; it is the story of a system that failed. And the system didn't fail through carelessness or laziness; it was corrupted.
Mr. Lindsey and Mr. O'Neill were, in effect, patting themselves on the back for allowing Enron to fail. Indeed, that is one redeeming feature of the saga. It turns out that you can be too well connected; Enron was so enmeshed with the Bush administration that any bailout would have been politically disastrous.
But it's missing the point to focus on Enron's eventual failure. The real issue is what Enron executives got away with during the good
times.
We usually take the viability of the modern corporation, in which professional managers look after the interests of shareholders, for granted. But as economists since Adam Smith have warned, a separation between ownership and management opens the possibility of insider abuse. Indeed, Smith thought that such a separation was a bad idea, except in a handful of businesses.
But you can't run a modern economy with family-owned companies and partnerships. So capitalism as we know it depends on a set of institutions - many of them provided by the government - that limit the potential for insider abuse. These institutions include modern accounting rules, independent auditors, securities and financial market regulation, and prohibitions against insider trading.
The Enron affair shows that these institutions have been corrupted. None of the checks and balances that were supposed to prevent insider abuses worked; the supposedly independent players were compromised.
Enron's byzantine network of 3,000 subsidiaries and partnerships - one for every seven employees - made a mockery both of accounting rules and of rules against insider trading. Not incidentally, the network also allowed the company to evade taxes in four of the last five years. And Enron executives knew what they were doing. A letter last August from an Enron vice president to the chairman, Kenneth Lay, described how shell companies with names like Condor and Raptor were used to create fictitious profits, and quoted one manager as saying, "We are such a crooked company."
The accounting firm of Arthur Andersen was told of these concerns. Yet it gave Enron a free pass, and shredded documents when questions arose. The regulators were nowhere to be seen, partly because politicians with personal ties to Enron, like Senator Phil Gramm, took care to exempt Enron from regulation.
Mr. Lindsey and Mr. O'Neill would have us believe that all's well that ended badly; because Enron was allowed to fail, justice was done and the system worked. But Enron isn't a person; the evildoers here were Enron executives, who collectively walked off with at least $1.1 billion.
It's not just a matter of the utter unfairness of it all - employees lose their life savings while crooked executives walk away rich. It's also a matter of what it takes to make capitalism work. Investors must be reasonably sure that reported profits are real, that executives won't use their positions to enrich themselves at the expense of stockholders and employees, that when insiders do abuse their positions their actions will be discovered and punished.
Now we have seen a graphic demonstration that the system that was supposed to provide those assurances doesn't work. And nobody I know in the financial community thinks Enron was an isolated case.
Yet all the evidence suggests that the Bush administration doesn't get it. On the contrary, until the latest revelations it was moving in the wrong direction. Harvey Pitt, the new chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, made his reputation as a lawyer who represented accounting firms - including Andersen - in struggles to maintain auditor independence. Now we've seen what Andersen did with that independence.
The truth is that key institutions that underpin our economic system have been corrupted. The only question that remains is how far and how high the corruption extends.
Stephen Roach -- Sharefin, 15:54:27 01/19/02 Sat
Cracking Denial
Crosscurrents -- Sharefin, 15:51:55 01/19/02 Sat
A Story That Will Be Told And Retold
Crash warning -- Sharefin, 15:47:57 01/19/02 Sat
The Market Climate remains on a Crash Warning here
JP Morgan -- Sharefin, 15:45:24 01/19/02 Sat
JP Morgan upgrades Anglo American
El Nino -- Sharefin, 15:38:45 01/19/02 Sat
IS El NIÑO COMING BACK?
Efficient Frontier -- Sharefin, 15:36:03 01/19/02 Sat
How Much Pie Can You Buy?
Crosscurrents -- Sharefin, 15:33:45 01/19/02 Sat
Whom Do You Trust?
The Last Great Bubble - Counterfeiting the Dollar -- Sharefin, 15:19:57 01/19/02 Sat
The Last Great Bubble - Counterfeiting the Dollar
Cobra -- Sharefin, 15:15:59 01/19/02 Sat
Here's a couple of versions of the Dow/Gold ratio.
Long term chart
Short term
auspec -- Sharefin, 15:13:46 01/19/02 Sat
I don't think anyone needs to worry about Warren Buffett's silver position.
When you think about it it's on;ly about 20% of a years consumption.
When the market is producing 450 million ounces but consuming 850 million ounces and the global stockpiles have run dry then Warrn's pot of silver will only feed the deficit for a few months.
Then what?
Credit Bubble Bulletin for January 18th -- Donald, 14:43:15 01/19/02 Sat
Analysis of the consumer bubble
U.S. Manufacturers want a weaker dollar -- Donald, 08:08:56 01/19/02 Sat
Representatives meet with U.S. Treasury official asking for intervention against the dollar
GoldGate -- FOG, 07:51:14 01/19/02 Sat
Gold/USD, interbank, 19 days of January [$00.10 moves]
Tuesday, January 1, 2002
1 Gold (oz.) = 278.800 US Dollar
1 US Dollar (USD) = 0.003587 Gold (oz.) (XAU)
Saturday, January 19, 2002
1 Gold (oz.) = 278.700 US Dollar
1 US Dollar (USD) = 0.003588 Gold (oz.) (XAU)
There appear to be 'security guards' at the gold gate. Big guys with an attitude. Control.
How can they do that? Expanded tool set. RINET for example.
"LL117/98 09 December 1998 [Just in time for 31 Dec legacy lock-in]
LLOYD'S WORKS WITH RINET ON NEW E-TRADING INITIATIVE FROM REBUS
Lloyd's is working with RINET (the Reinsurance and Insurance NETwork), to establish a London pilot for a new insurance and reinsurance e-trading initiative - Trader 2000.
2. The Reinsurance and Insurance NETwork (RINET) facilitates the use of electronic networking technologies on behalf of its world-wide membership of over 550 companies in over 60 countries."
http://www.lloydsoflondon.co.uk/pressmedia/pressreleases/1998/dec/ll11798.htm
"IVANS and RINET joint program brings EDI to U.S. reinsurers
PROJECT WILL FACILITATE INTERNATIONAL TRANSMISSION OF DATA
IVANS and Brussels-based Reinsurance and Insurance Network formed a partnership offering U.S. reinsurers, ceding companies and reinsurance brokers EDI (Electronic Data Interchange) services for domestic and international reinsurance transactions. RETACCs, REBORDs and RESETTs already are being exchanged via EDI. These messages include technical accounting, bordereau and SETTLEMENT ADVICE, respectively."
http://www.roughnotes.com/rnmag/february97/02p54.htm
From newest ISO 4217 list
"XRE RINET Funds Code"
http://www.gefeg.com/work/ana/part3/co4i.htm
Central banks. Banks. Insurance Companies. And a private currency [code]. One might move a modest mountain or two.
Dow/Gold Ratio Chart -- Cobra, 07:09:49 01/19/02 Sat
Sharefin---Or---Donald....
I would be most appreciative if either of you could
post a chart of the present Dow/Gold Ratio...I have not
seen one in quite a while......Thanks in advance.
Kodie - Golden Bathtub -- AuNuggets, 22:38:59 01/18/02 Fri
The Golden Bathtub was featured on a television show about gold sometime back. Have not seen it anywhere on the internet, but if I run across it, I will send along the link. Supposedly the owner of the tub has it located in a spa somewhere in Japan and charges handsomely for each "life-extending" dip. Who says gold pays no interest.....?
offal -- auspec, 22:32:53 01/18/02 Fri
How'd you get that cool little light bulb with your post? Buffet, imho, is to be thought of much like Ted Turner. Turner was a real renegade and elbowed his way to billionaire status from practically nothing. Took a ton of chances and has always been quite the 'visionary'. In fact he made it big nuff to join the most elite of the elite, and now he is 'one'. I am simply saying WB should not be put on a silver pedestal because it will likely melt on us.
You a silver officianado, eh? Buffet or no Buffet this one is going to fly.
Anyone here dispute the fact that above ground silver is more rare than gold? We had an extensive discussion of this at ER recently. Now, is there sufficient underground silver to keep silver from STAYING at an eventual $50 to $100. I say there is as enough time for exploration and development is allowed. a lag time for sure. Some think otherwise, but I'm not sure how mining savy they are.
Regards!
auspec -- offal, 21:50:18 01/18/02 Fri
by now everyone has heard 'the fed stands ready to lease gold should the price rise', or some such variation
substitute silver, and you have the reason why WB, and all the other billionaires, are long.
it wouldn't be far fetched that the FED, and other fiat controllers, encouraged these 'pillars' of capitalism, to make this investment, just for this very reason.
in FACT, when silver shot up, lease rates exploded (yes, exploded, to da mooon), All i could think about was how uncanningly similar it was to greenspan's comments regarding gold leasing.
Buffet -- auspec, 21:05:18 01/18/02 Fri
The following is from GE by Robt Chapman:
Warren Buffet owns about a quarter of the worlds available silver. Has Warren proven himself to be a value investor par excellence? Don't you want to take the advise of someone like him and invest in silver yourself as well as George Soros, Bill Gates and other billionaires? They must know something to be putting their fortunes into silver. Palladium just went up ten times in price in only four years so please don't say it can't happen. It just did happen with palladium and you could have been a millionaire by buying $20,000 worth of palladium contracts in 1996. This is real world proof you can do it with almost no downside, with almost no risk and an upside that is mind-boggling. END
Comments: I am getting a tad weary of folks blindly assuming that it is a GOOD thing that WB holds all this silver, as am not personnaly so sure. Yes, he is a value investor, but is he simply going to use his silver position as a means of influence peddling? Isn't this quite the hammer overhanging the market still, albeit at some higher level? Please indulge me with somewhat of an absurd thought {or is it?}: would you be thrilled of the Queen herself owned this much silver? Would you rather have it in widespread hands? Frankly my Buffet suspicions arise partially because of his backing of the Jr Senator from Arkansas, excuse me, New York. Enough said? Ever see WB wax philosophically on honest money issues or bi-metallism? I have not. WB is certainly one mighty shrewd investor and his value approach to markets is one worth emulating, I'm kust not totally comfortable where he will take this silver story. It's not like he's out beating the drum for $40 silver and letting anyone know his intentions or even in what actual form his Ag holdings are in. I say he's merely an oportunist with more socialist than hard money leanings. Have I lost it? Any thoughts?
$hifty's Ponzi Index -- RossL, 19:58:43 01/18/02 Fri
The index is at 5851.10 Ponzi dollars on Friday, January 18, 2002.
$hifty's Ponzi index chart is derived from the forumla: Ponzi index = (Nasdaq + Dow) divided by 2.
RossL Charts Page
AuNuggets, I have not -- Kodie, 19:54:14 01/18/02 Fri
...seen the bathtub. Do you have a link?
Kodie..... -- AuNuggets, 19:22:56 01/18/02 Fri
Glad to see another connoisseur of natures fine forms of yellow delight ! Have you seen the "Golden Bathtub" ? Supposedly made of SOLID gold rather than guilded like the toilet. But what a bathroom the pair would make, eh ?
AuNuggets
Lady of the Lake -- Kodie, 18:20:32 01/18/02 Fri
I just this minute got an email from Janet, The Lady of the Lake and she arrived home to Queensland yesterday after a successful 7 month prospecting trip to Western Australia.
"Got back yesterday after an arduous trek back across cental Australia in 44 degrees C. Had numerous punctures and wrecked 4 tyres since I left Kalgoorlie!"
I'm glad she's safe.
The Golden Pot and my wife -- Kodie, 18:11:35 01/18/02 Fri
Nice site Sharefin. I've been reading all the links, but I'm a sorry reader of charts. I enjoy your personal site too. First things first. The nugget photo posted by AuNuggets 21:16:42 01/16/02 from the
Lady of the Lake site, I almost
bought it. I hesitated, and someone beat me to the punch. Wish I had it now, but I do have quite a few of her salt lake nuggets, including
Dads Nugget.
Anyway, my wife walks into the room and sees the title The Golden Pot and makes the remark
The Golden Pot - what is that? I explained the situation about the Forum, and remarked that the pitcher is probably a photo of some 3,000 year old gold relic. Then I showed her the post of the City of Gold down under these recent posts, and she was quite impressed. Then, it came to my mind that she had not seen the
gold toilet photo
so I showed her that and now she wants one. Ha! Right!
Anyway, she was impressed with this site and so am I. Congratulations.
Late afternoon New York silver news -- Donald, 16:12:32 01/18/02 Fri
Closing news, comments and analysis
Argentine banking chaos -- Donald, 15:59:51 01/18/02 Fri
Argentine banks face insolvency. Foreign owned banks raided by investigators. Police beefed up.
@Sharefin -- Galearis, 07:47:18 01/18/02 Fri
Good morning, Sharefin,
(Hi auspec!)
Goldbugs are all refugees in spirit, that's why we hedge. The thought popped up as I sat down to type this. I meant to say that I AM a Kitco refugee and, perhaps, now from another forum too. The word "refugee" connotes different things to different people (another thought coming through):
For my father (of the conventional school of thought) the word "gold" equates to refugees in that "gold is for refugees" mindset. All his (considered) wealth is in CAN$ in one form or another and we dispair of his situation.
But his philosophy is the mindset of the majority it seems, a microcosm speaking for the greater numbers, and a revelation at how difficult it is for logic, numbers and historical harranges to move an ideologue from a belief system with the potential to destroy those that have been "taught" to support it.
A beautiful forum, kind sir. Thank you for being here.
Regards,
G.
The Fat Lady has sung! -- $hifty, 07:17:02 01/18/02 Fri
http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?mnu=news&ptitle=Mining%20News&tp=ad_mine&T=au_storypage99.ht&s=APEf69hS6QW5nbG9H
Mining News
Fri, 18 Jan 2002, 11:03pm EST
AngloGold Cedes Normandy to Newmont, Closes Offer (Update1)
By Antony Sguazzin
Johannesburg, Jan. 18 (Bloomberg) -- AngloGold Ltd., the second-biggest gold producer, said it closed its A$5.62 billion ($2.89 billion) takeover bid for Normandy Mining Ltd., ceding the battle for Australia's top gold miner to Newmont Mining Corp.
The company ``believes that it is not possible for AngloGold to obtain majority control of Normandy,'' Chief Executive Bobby Godsell said in a statement. Johannesburg-based AngloGold rescinded an earlier notice that it would extend the offer by a week, saying lawyers sent it to the Australian stock exchange by mistake.
``It's a bit depressing for the South African gold sector,'' said Allan Cooke, an analyst at Rice Rinaldi Securities.
AngloGold wanted Normandy to cuts its costs and lessen its dependence on South Africa, where the depth of deposits makes mining difficult. U.S.-based Newmont also aims to reduce costs by acquiring the Australian company, whose margins have benefited from record lows in the Australian dollar.
AngloGold said it won 7.1 of Normandy shares. A week ago it said 6.5 percent of Normandy's shareholders had accepted its offer.
Newmont can now force AngloGold to accept its offer for the Normandy shares, if more than 90 percent of Normandy shareholders approve it.
``We are pleased that the shareholders of Normandy have had their say,'' said Randy Eppler, Newmont's vie president for corporate development, in an interview. Newmont expects to complete the acquisition in mid-February, he said.
AngloGold shares fell as much as 20 rand, or 4.2 percent, to 456 rand. Normandy fell as much as 4 cents, or 2 percent, to A$2.01.
Auspec welcome -- Sharefin, 23:19:56 01/17/02 Thu
The moniker is an old hangon from when I first registered @ Kitco - nothing more.
And there's not to many Kitco refugees here - they're still trying to kick the habit.
Funny old world eh......
Collusion/Collision -- auspec, 22:39:06 01/17/02 Thu
"It’s almost as though the are siding with those colluding to keep the POG & POS low."
Maybe they've been in touch with the Blanchard Folks or the Weiss expert on silver, Victor Flores. More truth on the net than the regular media but also much contamination, basically the full spectrum of opinions are expressed, and one can pretty much take his pick which one to believe. Which usually brings him back to where his original bias was, no?
One must always be on the lookout for AGENDAS as some are quite clever at concealing them. Open and honest folks have gone the way of the .5c cigar and the TV Westerns, but let's not get started on that one again.
Am personally into most aspects of Au & Ag and have a particular affinity for Jr miners. They have been a scourge for so long that historic depths have been reached, nobody wants them. You know what they say about things that nobody else seems to want. So I find myself being a contrarian in a contrarian market. I do own one Senior, FN, and they seem to be the current Kingmaker in the present merger skirmish; cash is king. Can we mention stocks here, I saw no rules/guidelines posted? Would have rather seen FN spend their money in the Jrs as they would have received 2X the result w 1/2 the cash and still retain their autonomy. Their M&A guy happens to have voted similarly, to no avail. maybe the NuNumont will have sufficient funds and aspirations to head in the right direction soon. NO new reserves are brought to the table by the combination of Franco, Newmont, and Normandy, merely a management reshuffling. Don't get me wrong, this is a huge battle for the good guys {non-hedgers}, but it is still months or years from bringing NEW gold to market. Too bad! Now, friend Black Blade says the gold mining industry has trimmed its roster to the point that it will be most difficult to find competent exploration and production help when POG turns north. Too bad! What in the world should I do with a few spare FRNs when this market reaches such extremes and the pendulum has reached its modulus of elasticity? Maybe it will come to me in my sleep.
So, there are a few Kitco refugees /escapees here, eh?
Rhody: I have read your posts at USAG put up by G or Rich{?}. Looking forward to some dialog as SILVER is a no brainer, imho. Time and cycles are our best friend! We're due the precious metals upside, and after all these govt games, it's gonna be a historic one. They will drown in this 2nd POOL, soon or sooner. What hudspeh! What foolishness! I'm no fan of Soros {or Buffet}, but making govt pay for their folly is GOOD sport.
Howe do we expand these great net gold sites so more than just the 'choir' is reached? Doubt there are many choirboys here, other than me. Ha.
Regards or Cheers as one of my heros commonly says,
auspec
Nice Site -- auspec, 21:45:31 01/17/02 Thu
Thought maybe I would drop in to the friendly confines of the Sharefin site. Promise to behave. Can someone tell me where the term 'Sharefin' is derived from? I see Sharefin spends some time at ER, that's very good. Also see several familiar faces here, particularly ThaiGold, going for the trifecta perhaps?
The GATA support of this site is well known and appreciated by all, as is the unparalleled {sp?} technical work. looking forward to plugging in here, thanks.
auspec
The Last Great Bubble - Counterfeiting the Dollar -- Black Blade, 21:26:32 01/17/02 Thu
Snippit:
You may be inclined to think that the green bills in your wallet are dollars, but I have shocking news for you: They're not. They're counterfeits. Since 1913, a gradual shift has turned our money from wealth to debt, and finally into a speculative investment. Prior to 1913, the first year of the Federal income tax, and the year of the founding of the Federal Reserve System, gold and silver coins, stamped by the U.S. Mint were the principal money used in this country. This was not merely tradition, but it was a constitutional imperative, as we shall see. The U.S. Coinage Act of 1792, consistent with the Constitution, provided for a U.S. Mint, which stamped silver and gold coins. One dollar was defined by statute as a specific weight of gold. The Act also invoked the death penalty for anyone found to be debasing money.
Black Blade: Good read on Gold as money. Preaching to the choir, but still worth reading anyway.
http://www.depression2.tv/2002/counterfeiting.html
Here's the lease rates -- Sharefin, 21:18:04 01/17/02 Thu
The cabal are getting desperate -- Sharefin, 21:11:45 01/17/02 Thu
Kitco's lease rate chart is showing lease rates for gold starting to jump.
![]()
Yet on their lease rate page it's not showing these numbers.
Check here
Why aren't both datasets constant - theoretically they should be coming from the same source?
And when you go to check out lease rates from The Bullion Desk you'll see that they also haven't updated theirs to show the recent changes.
(Also note that The Bullion Desk haven't updated their databases for charting the PM's for quite a few months now. Just click on the little charting icons in the page linked above and you'll see how back dated their data is.)
Strange how a 'premier' gold website isn't keeping their viewers updated with what they want to see?
Mitsubishi is showing the higher move in the rates.
Yet LBMA Lease Rates is not yet showing any increase.
So do we have the beginnings of squeeze in the lease rates leading to a squeeze in the POG or not?
I sure hope so!!!
Whatever happens one needs to be a lot more cautious in validating prices and quotes across the net.
It does appear that some of the precious metals data providers are disinclined to keep their data accurate & up to date.
It’s almost as though the are siding with those colluding to keep the POG & POS low.
The recent fiasco in silver well demonstrates the above.
There’s a precious metals war coming and it appears some are being told what to do.
And the cabal are desperate enough to force their way.
First Frank - now Bart, next it’ll probably be Murphy. Who next!!!
Enron Fires Arthur Andersen -- Sharefin, 19:25:32 01/17/02 Thu
Enron Fires Arthur Andersen, Cites 'Recent Events'
Lawmakers on the House Energy and Commerce Committee today released an internal Andersen memo that acknowledges the auditor talked in February about Enron's affiliated partnerships and habit of ``intelligent gambling'' with the booking of revenue.
---
I wonder how much gold & silver derivatives they were playing with...^o-o^
Enron fires Anderson -- Sharefin, 19:20:22 01/17/02 Thu
JP Morgan Chase -- Sharefin, 18:22:35 01/17/02 Thu
Fall Street
JP Morgan Chase misses earnings estimates and the CEO states, "our economic scenario for 2002 is not a rosy one" - this is anything but perfect.
As for JPM, S&P lowered the companies outlook yesterday to negative, but refused to lower the companies rating (a lower credit rating would trigger higher debt payments and could cripple JPM). Rumor has it that Greenspan personally called up S&P directly and pleaded with them not to downgrade the 1907 'lender of the last resort'. S&P obliged, and now everyone is working feverously to figure out how to hide the billions of dollars in exposure JPM still carries in Enron, Argentina, K-Mart and others. If you think this story is far fetched read what has been going on with Enron.
So how does JPM plan to get out their current mess? Buy more debt -- literally...
U.S. mortgage rates drop under 7% -- Sharefin, 17:51:49 01/17/02 Thu
U.S. mortgage rates tumble
Argentine Banks in Tailspin -- Sharefin, 17:43:25 01/17/02 Thu
Argentine Banks in Tailspin
Siver lease rates still high -- Sharefin, 17:26:08 01/17/02 Thu
Mitsubishi PM Data
1 month = 14.63 - 19.71
3 month = 7.65 - 12.73
6 month = 5.68 - 9.78
12 month = 4.02 - 7.12
Note the above are ranges.
Argentine Peso Sinks to New Lows as Crisis Continues -- Sharefin, 17:08:33 01/17/02 Thu
Argentine Peso Sinks to New Lows as Crisis Continues
Change of Heart -- Sharefin, 07:11:18 01/17/02 Thu
UBS Warburb Report - pdf file
The announcement from a major gold company that it had reduced its hedging recently may become a feature of 2002. We expect further reductions in gold hedging from a number of gold producers this year. We estimate that changes in the aggregate producer hedgebook this year will see demand from this part of the market rather than supply as has been the case over most of the last 15 years. This is one of the key arguments behind our expectations of a strengthening gold price in 2002.
The K-Wave -- Sharefin, 07:06:15 01/17/02 Thu
Many investors are now once again starting to watch the American gold market and are asking themselves the question, “Has the market bottomed out, and is the market now in the very early stages of the next major bull market”. On the surface it appears that there is good reason at this time to be asking themselves this question when one considers the international economic and political uncertainty that exists. Hopefully the following will assist investors in reaching a conclusion that in all reality may make the difference in whether they survive financially or not in the next few years.
The first item to be examined is whether or not the long-term business cycle is still in play. Those who are familiar with cycles are well aware of the K-Wave Theory which states that approximately every 55 years on average the American economy goes through an economic cleansing to adjust for the economic excesses of the past. The question which is on the minds of many today is “Has the US economy entered the Winter phase of the K-Wave cycle, and if so, what effect will this have on precious metal investments?”
A HISTORICAL REVIEW OF THE AMERICAN GOLD MARKET
Taylor On Manipulation -- Sharefin, 07:03:08 01/17/02 Thu
On Monday of this past week, my good friend James Turk, editor of "The Freemarket Gold & Money Report" revealed more compelling evidence that the U.S. government has been swapping its own gold to other nations. This action undertaken starting in 1998, freed those nations to dump gold physically held in their vaults and thereby suppress or cap the international gold price. As long term subscribers are aware, the suppression of the gold price was a major cornerstone of the Clinton strong dollar policy. That strong dollar policy which, on the basis of trade resulted in a grossly overvalued dollar is to this day continuing to fuel enormous global economic dislocations that threaten to bring down the global economy. The end of this nonsense, one must think is near.
Taylor On Gold
S. African golds to produce Q4 stormer -- Sharefin, 06:57:19 01/17/02 Thu
S. African golds to produce Q4 stormer
JOHANNESBURG - South African gold producers are heading for stand-out fourth quarter results owing to highest ever rand gold prices and quarter-on-quarter increases in operating earnings totalling several hundred percent.
Normandy hedge call gives Newmont leg-up -- Sharefin, 06:45:25 01/17/02 Thu
Normandy hedge call gives Newmont leg-up
Whispers -- Sharefin, 06:34:35 01/17/02 Thu
Gold has lost much of its glitter on world market ; Metal isn't as precious as it used to be
Silver speculation
Silver was trading in the $4.52 per ounce range Monday, down from $4.73 in New York last week - the peak of a long rally that began at the end November. Prices rose by 50 cents per ounce during that time. Silver lease rates also jumped, giving rise to all sorts of speculation.
"There's a rumor that Enron had a short position on 50 million ounces of silver," said Coeur d'Alene Mines' Steeves. He's also heard rumors involving billionaire investor Warren Buffett, whose silver position in 1998 helped spike the metal above $6 per ounce for a brief period.
Futures Source News -- Sharefin, 06:23:51 01/17/02 Thu
***Australia's largest gold miner, Normandy Mining Ltd. said Thursday its production of 1.249 million troy ounces in the fiscal first half ended Dec. 31 was the best half-year performance it has recorded. In the same period a year before, Normandy produced 1.1 million ounces of gold.
***Australia's largest gold miner Normandy Mining Ltd. said Thursday it has reduced its gold hedging to allow great participation in a rise in the gold price and because the forward price of gold has been reduced by low U.S. and Australian interest rates and higher gold interest rates.
***Australian gold and tantalum producer Sons of Gwalia Ltd. said Thursday its gold production for the fiscal second quarter ended Dec. 31 jumped 55% to 162,746 troy ounces, from 105,098 ounces a year earlier.
***Miners Out Of Pocket After Tronoh's Exit Sydney, Jan. 17 (OsterDowJones)--Tronoh Mines Malaysia Bhd.'s (P.TMM) decision to appoint receivers to its 62%-owned Hillgrove Gold NL (A.HGO) of Australia has seen 90 miners lose their jobs and short of millions of dollars of pension payments, the Daily Telegraph reports in a front page story Thursday.
***Australian Pasminco Says Won't Sell Century Mine
***Diversified miner WMC Ltd. (WMC) is shaping up as Australia's biggest corporate play in 2002, with U.S. aluminum giant Alcoa Inc still circling despite being rebuffed late last year.
***Precious metals settled higher Wednesday, amid buying that seemed to smack of flight-to-quality sentiment in response to another bad day on Wall Street.
Future Source News
Lenny's Daily Commentary -- Sharefin, 06:10:48 01/17/02 Thu
Prospector Asset Management
Today the gold market was a marvel of beauty and professional gamesmanship. One large bank began aggressively buying gold in the Far East and carried into London. Prices were pushed through the $285 technical resistance level. As the market in general was very short, awaiting the next to last Bank of England auction, nerves began to get a bit frayed. Then a rumor swept the market that one buyer was planning to "take out" all of the gold being offered. This panicked the shorts and the price of gold ran to the $290 level and slightly above as shorts aggressively covered their positions. At the time of the auction, gold was trading at about $287.50. Then the hammer fell, to wit...NO ONE SHOWED UP AT THE AUCTION. The Bank of England, always a most welcome financial contributor to the market, sold it's gold at $4 UNDER THE MARKET PRICE (an immediate loss of almost 2.6 Million USD). Gold immediately fell $4 as disappointed longs sold. Then, as New York opened, gold rallied to the back to the $288 level. The gold market whipsawed both the longs and the shorts yesterday and the largest losses were, of course, taken by the Bank of England, as per the official rules of the game.
Delta.au -- Sharefin, 03:29:24 01/17/02 Thu
This lot of Aussie stocks would make you smile.
Goldfields Australia ... Lookin' GOOD!!! -- Delta.au, 02:50:40 01/17/02 Thu
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Goldfields Limited (ASX: GLD) announces further exploration success
within the Darwin Zone at Henty.
It has been reported that the Mt Julia resource area is now separated
into the northern Mt Julia Zone and the southern Darwin Zone, as
shown in the attached long sections. These zones are separated by a
large fault structure known as the Moa Fault.
Further underground infill drilling of the Darwin Zone commenced in
October 2001. This drilling has separated Darwin into two significant
zones of high-grade gold mineralisation, one of which is to the north
and the other is at the very southern and near the limit of the
current decline. Both zones appear to be amenable to bulk mining
methods, showing continuity of the significant mineralisation widths
with very little structural disturbance.
New results from the northern zone of Darwin are:
- 6.7 metres at 11.9 g/t Au (Z16235)
- 13.3 metres at 11.9 g/t Au and 15.9 metres at 11.4 g/t Au (Z16232)
- 12.7 metres at 18.0 g/t Au and 14.0 metres at 15.8 g/t Au (Z16238)
- 10.2 metres at 23.0 g/t Au (Z16245)
New results from the southern zone of Darwin are:
- 15.8 metres at 40.0 g/t Au (Z16220)
- 17.2 metres at 8.0 g/t Au (Z16223)
- 6.7 metres at 17.9 g/t Au (Z16228)
- 8.5 metres at 27.2 g/t Au (Z16231)
- 9.2 metres at 10.5 g/t Au (Z16234)
- 7.3 metres at 92.8 g/t Au (Z16240)
- 8.7 metres at 34.2 g/t Au (Z16258)
The locations of these new results are shown on the attached long
section.
Holes Z16240 and Z16258 in the southern zone of Darwin are of
particular significance as they are located approximately 40m south
of all previous holes and indicate that the high-grade mineralisation
remains open to the south.
As a result of the Darwin drilling results it is planned to extend
the Mt Julia decline south so that the full extent of the high-grade
gold mineralisation can be defined.
Underground diamond drilling of the Darwin Zone commenced in July
2001. Previously reported results included 16.8 metres at 12.2g/t Au
(Z16202). 16.2 metres at 14.2g/t Au (Z16173). 6.1 metres at 31.8g/t
Au (Z16164). 42.4m @ 7.3g/t Au (Z16148), 7.6 metres at 18.3g/t Au
(Z16185) and 1.5 metres at 247g/t Au (Z16197). For completeness,
these results are also shown on the attached long section.
Terry Burgess, Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer of
Goldfields Limited, commented: "These exciting drilling results
suggest that mining at Henty in years to come will be at grades
higher than previously anticipated. It is also pleasing that mining
of the Darwin Zone will be at the reduced 1% royalty rate."
Note: All intercepts are true width at uncut grade
For further information, please contact:
Terry Burgess
Telephone (02) 9903 4000
The Binion Collection -- Sharefin, 00:32:23 01/17/02 Thu
Ted Binion's Silver Dollars Sold - pdf file
The Binion Collection
Australian stocks follow U.S. down, gold glitters -- Sharefin, 00:25:54 01/17/02 Thu
Australian stocks follow U.S. down, gold glitters
The Australian share market succumbed to Wall Street's weakness in early trade on Thursday, with losses seen across the board.
The gold sector was among the exceptions as Australian producers remained the focus of recent consolidation in the sector world-wide.
Australia's largest producer, Normandy Mining (NDY) , which has been the subject of a long takeover battle between two of the world's largest producers, shot another five cents to A$2.06, to its highest since September, 1996.
The latest rally follows a 2.4 percent rally in the share price of U.S.-based Newmont Mining (NEM) , the front-runner in the takeover bid, which pushed the value of its bid for Normandy up to A$2.08 per share.
Also, Normandy said on Thursday it has reduced its minimum hedge ratio and completed restructuring of its hedge book, which would increase its exposure to any upside in the gold price.
Other gold stocks rode the enthusiasm for the sector. For example, Goldfields (GLD) , which recently merged with Delta Gold and will change its mind to Aurion Gold, rallied 2.6 percent to A$2.72, while Lihir Gold (LHG) rose 2.3 percent to A$1.34.
Gold for money -- Sharefin, 00:23:59 01/17/02 Thu
Iamgold Wants Investors,Indus To See Gold As Money
A Canadian mining company has come up with a new policy that should add some sparkle to its dividend payments, while compelling the gold industry to rethink its approach to promoting bullion.
Ontario-based Iamgold Corp. (T.IMG) recently unveiled its "Gold Monetary Policy" to underscore its assertion that gold should be recognized more as a monetary unit. Under this policy, the bulk of Iamgold's corporate discretionary funds - some US$65 million - has already been converted into gold, and shareholders are now being given the option of receiving future dividend payments in either gold or Canadian dollars.
"If we as an industry don't demonstrate our belief in the monetary nature of gold, why should we expect anyone else to?" said John Ross, Iamgold's Chief Financial Officer. "We firmly believe that our industry can best promote gold by simply using it as money."
Iamgold believes that some segments of the gold industry have overemphasized the jewelry-related aspects of gold, while overlooking bullion's role as a store of value. The company hopes its new policy will help reverse this trend, while setting the standard for how the gold industry should be standing behind its product.
In a statement, Iamgold co-chairmen William Pugliese and Mark Nathanson said: "We firmly believe in gold's primary monetary role as a safe store of value and that gold is the only form of money that is not someone's paper I.O.U. Given our belief that gold is fundamentally undervalued relative to paper currencies, it only stands to reason that we would prefer gold bullion to U.S. dollars."
An official with Iamgold said the company's management believes the present trading range for gold is "significantly" below what they consider to be appropriate based on current international economic conditions. However, this official declined to comment on what price level the company would view as appropriate for gold.
Joanne Jobin, Director of Investor Relations for Iamgold, said the initial response to the new policy has been very favorable with many peers in the mining industry sending congratulatory messages.
"Gold is money. It has always been out there in that form, but it has just been a little forgotten and we hope to bring some attention back to it," said Jobin, adding that the company hopes others in the mining industry will follow their example in treating gold as a monetary option.
"We are a mining company and we are standing behind our product," said Jobin.
Aaaaah ! -- AuNuggets, 23:54:11 01/16/02 Wed
"The City of Gold"...... I remember that one. And that's one hefty nugget !! Thanks for sharing.....
Massive Precious Metals Loss -- Sharefin, 23:43:55 01/16/02 Wed
Ford Chief Explains Precious Metals Loss; Further Cuts Could Be Coming
DEARBORN, Mich. (AP) - Ford Motor Co. lost $1 billion on a precious metal used in catalytic converters because of a combination of improving technology and plummeting prices.
"Frankly, we saw palladium spiking in price, we bought palladium, and at the same time, our research labs did a magnificent job in reducing our dependence on palladium," Ford COO Nick Scheele said at a dinner during the annual Automotive News World Congress Tuesday night.
He said the price for palladium - a soft metal used as a catalyst or in alloys with other metals - dropped from the roughly $1,500 per troy ounce Ford paid to about $400.
The loss exacerbated a declining financial position for the automaker, which on Friday announced a $9 billion turnaround plan that included the closing of five plants in North America and the elimination of 35,000 jobs worldwide.
Mo Money -- Sharefin, 23:37:12 01/16/02 Wed
Venezuela discount rate raised to 38.5 pct
AuNuggets -- Sharefin, 23:26:59 01/16/02 Wed
Not sure on the weight but I'm sure it's on the website I linked in.
Apparently Janet has no trouble finding lots of nuggets.
If you have a real close look at her website and check out the photos I'm sure you'll be surprised.
Seems like there's ounces everywhere - like every few feet.
Here's a few of my favorite images.
This one was just over 196oz
Sharefin -- AuNuggets, 22:16:58 01/16/02 Wed
That's a real beauty ! What's the weight ?
Always dreamed of visiting friends down under, fondly referred to as "The Wizards of Oz" and doing some metal detecting. Have spent many a day detecting in the desert southwest here in the states for nuggets with my trusty GM-3, but nothing much left here to compare to the Aussie nuggets. "Big" for us is a few grams.....
AuNuggets
AuNuggets -- Sharefin, 21:16:42 01/16/02 Wed
Thanks
This one's from the Lady of the Lake
Giant Golden Gumboot -- Sharefin, 21:03:39 01/16/02 Wed
Nth Queensland town to build giant golden gumboot
Newest Gold Forum -- AuNuggets, 21:03:12 01/16/02 Wed
Sharefin,
Great new site, and nice to have another "above-board" place to read and post. Much appreciate all the work you've done on your links pages and now the forum. Best of luck to you Sir !
AuNuggets
BOE Auctions -- Sharefin, 20:55:20 01/16/02 Wed
Taking Candy From A Baby
PRINCETON, NJ -- A funny thing happened in London today. The Bank of England presided over an auction that sold 20 tonnes of gold at $283.50 an ounce for the grand purpose of adding $182 million Federal Reserve notes to the Treasury. In so doing, the wily Brit mandarins managed to leave $2.9 million on the table relative to the London morning fix ($287.95) and $4.2 million relative to the overnight high ($290).
Ordinarily one needs to be an insider of some standing to secure equivalent margins from such a prestigious client. I have no illusion that I might persuade the Old Lady to offer me 100 quid in exchange for just 98 bits of Her Majesty's specie. Yet she gives away HM's bullion at that rate.
The auction result, which showed the second worst subscription rate ever with an implied total bid of 28 tonnes, is not as calamitous as many commentators might believe. The actual achievement was to demonstrate the flawed auction design in fact as well as theory; a lampooning of the BoE at its penultimate auction.
Mitsui gold maven Andy Smith noted "conspicuous buying in the vacuum before London trading" which had forced professional shorts to cover their positions. Put another way, someone ran a beautifully orchestrated sting against the BoE. And it was all on the up-and-up since the BoE itself made possible this novel form of front running.
Leonard Kaplan of Prospector Asset Management believes the action started in Asia overnight triggering a premature run on the metal for fear that someone was going to scoop up all the BoE's gold and leave shorts high and dry.
The net effect was to force the shorts to fire all their guns leaving them spent by the time the auction came around. So the sharp tack in Asia who squeezed the shorts and engineered disinterest in the auction probably used his profits from the short squeeze to buy the BoE's discounted metal. He was immediately able to flip that into the market an hour later for up to $2 more per ounce.
That's some fine trading; the stuff on which personal legend is built. Whoever thought of it needs a double bonus.
The overall point to take away from this auction is that gold bulls remain reticent and lackluster. It evidently does not take much to stir the shorts. Someone could exhaust them by playing these games on an ongoing basis. And just what might have happened if the Asian wiz had decided to act on the leak that he would take up the entire allotment?
Perhaps we'll find out at the final auction in March. But the shorts will know the game by then. Can they be outplayed again?
Moderation -- Sharefin, 20:26:52 01/16/02 Wed
Currently I've turned the Moderation Control off and will leave it off untill such time as it's needed again.
Any posts that seek to attack or inflame will be removed and if any folk seek to be disruptive then they will be filtered then banned.
I was looking for another forum where password protection is available but do believe that the controls available on this forum will suffice.
As forum administrator I have the choices of:
1/ putting the forum on Moderator's Control where I approve/disapprove all posts
2/ deleting offensive/agressive posts
3/ individual Host/ISP banning
I will endeavour to utilise the above to keep this forum running smoothly and avoid the pitfalls of certain posters.
I am new at this caper so please excuse my censorship but feel assured that I will not censor gold related news or views but rather disruptive posters.
So controls are off and it's back to normal.
But rest assured I will exert control when neccessary.
I've also turned on a posting preview so posters can review their comments priot to posting.
Back to the subject at hand
Cheers Sharefin
Silver -- Sharefin, 20:07:46 01/16/02 Wed
Here's a chart of silver tick-by-tick showing the recent action.
sideways -- Cyclist, 15:40:31 01/16/02 Wed
April gold price will tighten till Jan30 between 290 and 285.March silver will be the catalyst.
SIL spiked at the close on volume,something dramatic is at hand.
different quotes -- Dave, 11:08:25 01/16/02 Wed
I have noticed quite a difference in the price quotes at Bart's place and Ino
http://quotes.ino.com/exchanges/?c=metals
Ino seems to use forex quotes. I have been going to ino for sometime, because they seem to show what is happening.
Wierd that there isn't a consenus on the price.
The Long Road Ahead -- Sharefin, 09:26:23 01/16/02 Wed
The Long Road Ahead
Pssst wanna buy some gold........ -- Sharefin, 09:19:08 01/16/02 Wed
China Pushes to Move Mountain of Bad Debt
Japan's banks failing
JP Morgan Chase -- Sharefin, 07:28:48 01/16/02 Wed
Loans, Argentina Hurt J.P. Morgan Profits
J.P. Morgan has disclosed that it is owed some $2.6 billion in Enron-related exposure, The Wall Street Journal reported Wednesday.
BOE Gold Sales -- Sharefin, 05:39:29 01/16/02 Wed
Results for the 2nd last sale
16 January 2002
The Bank of England announces that the gold on offer (approximately 20 tonnes or 643,200 ounces) has been allotted in full at a price of $283.50 per ounce. Details of the result are as follows:
Amount of gold on offer (approx.) 643,200 oz
Amount applied for 881,200 oz
Times covered 1.4 times
Amount allotted to bidders 643,600 oz
Allotment price $283.50
Scaling factor at allotment price 61.3334 %
All accepted bids which were made at prices above the allotment price have been allotted in full at the allotment price. Valid bids made at the allotment price have been allotted an amount of gold equal to the amount bid for multiplied by the above scaling factor and rounded up to the nearest 400 ounces.
By close of business in London today, applicants whose bids have been successful in whole or in part will be notified by the Bank of England of the exact weight of the gold bars allotted to them and the amount payable in respect of their purchase. Payment must be made in US dollars to the Bank of England's account at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, no later than 12 noon New York time on 18 January 2002.
Note for Editors
On 7 March 2001, H M Treasury announced that the Bank of England, on behalf of H M Treasury, would sell approximately 120 tonnes of gold in a programme of six auctions of around 20 tonnes each in the financial year 2001/02 on the terms and conditions set out in an Information Memorandum that was published on 7 March 2001. This is the fifth auction in the programme of six. The final auction will be held on Tuesday 5 March 2002.
Many thanks Thai Gold -- Sharefin, 05:22:53 01/16/02 Wed
Here's a couple of excellent urls for getting UK quotes & charts on the metals.
The little chart symbol top left corner takes you into a whole new page for charting.
Gold Quotes
Silver Quotes
@ Sharefin... Zowie.!. POG Plummets at BoE Time -- ThaiGold, 04:37:05 01/16/02 Wed
Well, you cannot make a profit shorting the POG "Markets",
unless you first run the price UP. Then you SMASH it down.
Deja'Vu AllOverAgain.
Scroll down to the live Forex chart I posted earlier.
It went straight down. On cue. On schedule. On Yawn.
PS: Here's the link for the BoE results, expected to be
published at the BoE Website momentarily:
BoE Website Auction Results 16 Jan 2002
Thai Gold -- Sharefin, 03:04:48 01/16/02 Wed
Many thanks for the chart links.
I'll bookmark them and keep an eye on them.
Well it appears that someone ‘got to Kitco’ so that even though they quote that ‘their prices are live’ they are far from it.
Kitco is obviously not allowed to quote the real live prices as they happen.
They are therefore not reliable as to when one wants an accurate quote.
I wonder when all the goldbugs will come to wonder that Kitco has sold out to the other side?
And I wonder how many other sources are the same?
Perhaps I’m wrong but it doesn’t look like it to me.
All this action reminds me of the chatter from years ago where it was forecast that the physical price would separate from the paper price.
Now one would have to presume that TPTB are seriously enough concerned for them to manipulate the price of silver.
It's certainly blatant enough where the price in London is well broadcast yet in the US investors aren't supposed to know.
So there must be a sizeable problem for them to go to this much effort in burying the information.
Perchance it's due to the serious nature of Enron's silver position.
I don’t know but it does show we are coming to the end of the price wars on the metals.
And about time.
ellix98 -- Sharefin, 02:51:28 01/16/02 Wed
I have zero interest in complaints or bitching.
Kitco is full of it.
Take you rhetoric elsewhere.
The Golden Pot is for gold content.....
@Fergus re: deflation -- Donald, 02:19:39 01/16/02 Wed
You have it stated correctly. The huge numbers of "dollars" in the world are "credit dollars" not fiat printed cash dollars. As in Enron recently many billions of those fantasy credit dollars disappeared in the blink of an eye. Gold holders had their purchasing power increase by an equal amount. You can buy 300 shares of Enron today for an ounce of gold. A few months ago you would only get 3 shares for your ounce. Expect this process to be repeated many times. Sure, the Fed will print and make credit easily available but the number of qualified (and fearless) borrowers will be plunging. Deflation news is the best news a gold holder can get. (Hi Chicken man)
@ Sharefin: Silver Price Clipping... -- ThaiGold, 02:07:05 01/16/02 Wed
Enjoyed seeing your observations of the price fakery of POS
charts NY-vs-London. I've remarked/harped about that long
and often at ER, since noticing the pattern of deceit last
year. You have expressed it far more elegantly than I could.
You suggest watching non-Kitco charts from England, for example
to get the real data. I agree wholheartedly, and we have been
advising our EagleRanchers to use these two charts instead
of the Kitco charts whenever there's a runup in POG or POS.
I'll post them here for all your fans as well. These are of
the 24 hour "Forex" trading, worldwide, and always seem very
accurate; detailed; and active. I've never seen the stall out
nor lose data, as is so prevalent on the Kitco feeds.
FWIW: These links, from an England source. Times are London:
AuF Forex Gold Chart
AgF Forex Silver Chart
BoE Auction: What Hath The Queen Wrought.?. -- ThaiGold, 01:24:46 01/16/02 Wed
Well Boys and Girls, it's nearing TeaTime. On Threadneedle Street.
In Foggy London Town. Time is nigh for the latest and next-to-final
Bank of England Gold "Auction". I put that in quotes, because we all
know what a farce they've been. For the past three years.
They "award" their booty to the LOWEST bidder. Oddly. But of course
including as the winners, the HIGHEST bidders as well. Somehow. Now
you see why the quotes. But not why the auctions.
15 tonnes. Every other month. For three years.!. Since just after they
looked into the Washington Agreement Abyss. Call it a bridge over
troubled waters. Sink or swim. Fish or cut bait. They got the message.
From Rubin. And Clinton. And Greenspan. Sell now. Avoid the rush. And
avoid our Wrath. Bush was powerless to stop them. Yes. Powerless.
Not really alot of Gold. Just enough,;and in a way; to spook the "markets".
(oops -- more of those quotes -- sorry. I can't help myself from snickering)
Well, as I write this it looks like it's a good time for them to end these
charades (no quotes). For the POG is rising. Alarmingly. With only minutes
to go before their dumpy-dump. POG nearly $290. $268 is customary. What gives.?.
Now we must begin to turn our attention to the next FINAL Auction
in March. Towards the middle. The Ides. How ominous.!. For them. Will they come
up with some NEW scheme. Subterfuge. Fanatic Fakery. Again.?. Answer: Yes.
Now all we need to do is guess WHAT it will be. What. Not When.
Regards to all our Friends at the Sharefin Site. Mind if I repost this at ER.?.
...Tai
Gold Up -- Sharefin, 01:06:28 01/16/02 Wed
Gold going up:
Silver is strange - Kitco has it as square - yet in London it was up 10cents - Bullion Desk had silver up 10cents and then dropped it.
What with Kitco removing the price spike the other day and what appears to be going on it's almost as if they don't want the US markets to know what's happening in London each day.
London wants silver at a higher price but NY doesn't want this known.
Supplies are heading east and mums the word - price data is changed.
They've taken to editing the data as to not show what's actually happening.
When you can, watch a website that's showing the prices in London whilst it's trading over there.
Don't watch Kitco or other US sites but rather try to find a UK site or European site.
See if you can spot this mythical action in silver.
Spot the price of silver........
Silver -- Sharefin, 00:03:16 01/16/02 Wed
Silver bolts higher in Europe on renewed borrowing
LONDON, Jan 15 (Reuters) - Silver prices jumped in Europe late on Tuesday as borrowing returned to the market and fund interest picked up, traders said.
Silver recouped overnight losses in late trade to reach a day's high of $4.63 an ounce at one stage as borrowing resumed.
"There have been reports of metal coming from New York to London, but people would have known about that and known it was coming...I think this is more to do with the fact that there is so much confusion and speculation and people don't know what's going on," one trader said.
"The borrower stopped borrowing and lease rates have eased...the borrowing has started again this afternoon and funds are interested again. Personally I think this market is still underpinned and is just marking time before it goes higher again," he added.
----
PGMs DOWN ON FORD NEWS
Platinum and palladium prices continued to feel pressure from Ford's announcement on Friday of a $1 billion write-down on holdings of palladium metals it had bought to use in exhaust systems.
At one stage in afternoon trade platinum prices were off nearly $20 at some $452.00/475.00 an ounce.
-----
Yet the Comex Palladium stockpile fell by 70% at the same time???
Peter Elaides - stockmarket cycles -- Sharefin, 23:12:54 01/15/02 Tue
Sign of the Bear
Snipped from EagleRanch -- Sharefin, 23:07:32 01/15/02 Tue
c2b re Frank Veneroso
Posted by: AuAg
Date: January 15, 2002 at 18:06
Message id: 3229
Hey c2b!
Remember howe Frankie was supposed to be in N.O. and pulled up lame at the last moment? The following is from JT {with a white hat} out of the previous link I put up:
WHY DID FRANK VENEROSO STOP PUBLISHING?
Last week, I talked to the CEO of a Canadian junior gold mining firm that is on our list. This CEO is very close to Frank Veneroso. In fact they have a working business relationship.
The CEO told me that Frank quit publishing his gold newsletter as a result of some pressure from people in high places. They told him that they would start following him around and watching his every move.
This morning I sent Bill Murphy, who used to work with Frank, an email to ask him about whether this is true. Here was Bill's response to me.
"That is correct. Also he was afraid he might be killed. Great country we got." Bill
Whereupon, I sent Bill another email to ask if this could be related to my subscribers in this week's hotline message. Bill said the following:
"Fine with me. I have mentioned it. I called him (Frank Veneroso) over Christmas. He said he had friends over and would call back. He never did call back. He says our phones are tapped." Bill
Last week I talked about an imposture group that is very much plugged into the American mainstream that is using the name "Blanchard" to talk what few gold bugs remain on the planet from buying gold. Now we hear that Frank Veneroso, a giant of an intellect who's work helped lead to the creation of GATA and the lawsuit now before Judge Lindsay in Boston, is being muzzled by the establishment.
For those of you who don't know Frank, he is a high priced Harvard educated consultant who has worked on behalf of various central banks and major corporations in America. He is highly regarded. He knows the price of gold is being rigged and he has said so publicly. One instant comes to mind when he confirmed statements made by Bill Murphy at and CMRE meeting in New York. At one point, a very hostile gentlemen who said he had friends at a major investment bank, stood up from his table and expressed great hostility toward Frank for implying wrong doing on the part of his friends. When Frank Veneroso talks, important people listen. I guess that is why Frank had to be shut up?
Do you see why I think the establishment is getting desperate? Do you see why I think that the price of gold may finally be ready to explode to levels far higher than all but the most ardent gold bugs can envision? END
Comment: The taps are playing for JT {with the dark hat} and the rest of the gold mauraders. Do you know a bit about my newest mining stock, Rio Narcea? If this story doesn't really get one's blood boiling don't know what will.
Regards,
AuAg
-----------------------
Galearis
Posted by: AuAg
Date: January 15, 2002 at 18:44
Message id: 3232
Bill has become personna non grata, but that is expected. A year and a half ago or so he had a car stolen, but it turned back up. He was suspicious but really unsure it had any deeper meaning. Then one night as he was walking home from a meal he was blindsided by a fist that likely wore brass knuckles. He never saw it coming and it took him down for the count. Nothing was removed from his person so robbery was no motive. Beyond that he hasn't said, but little would surprise me. His trek has been an educational tour of the shady side of American politics/economics, one wonders if he would have ever started out if he then knew where he was heading. One simply doesn't challenge the Power-Elite w/o great risk.
I also know that numerous GATA strategy sessions have involved long drives and person to person conversation as opposed to phone or e-mail use. You got some snoops/spooks involved in these issues and much hardball is played. The widespread use of the internet, I believe, helps keep folks relatively safe. If you're gonna be a target might as well be as public and conspicuous as possible, laying all your work and discoveries out there for all to see. Broad daylight and truth just happen to be allies of ours! Lord forbid, if something were to happen to Bill, there would be NUMEROUS folks ready to step in his place. This thing is way too big and out of control to be contained, Midas or no Midas, and hasn't he advanced the cause in a wondrous way?!
YIKES is right!
AuAg
------------
Frank Veneroso
Posted by: THC
Date: January 15, 2002 at 21:30
Message id: 3244
Good evening, gents!
I am sorry to say that I have heard similar things regarding Frank.
I previously inquired as to why he had stopped publishing and had even shut down his web sites, and the response was that he felt it would be dangerous for him to continue.
Somebody probably told him twould be be "Arkancide" for him to keep talking.
Sad indeed,
THC
-------
Kip -- Sharefin, 22:27:58 01/15/02 Tue
Here's a chart of the Ted Spread.
It comes from Mark's data Barron's Data
btw
Your chart never showed as I've not uploaded it.
Send it over & I'll do it.(:-)))
Comex Stockpiles -- Sharefin, 22:16:11 01/15/02 Tue
Are getting skinny!!!
Gold
Total = 1,212,652oz
Eligible = 103,480oz
Silver
Total = 103,268,084oz
Eligible = 34,567,960oz
Platinum
Total = 244 x 50oz = 12,200oz
July last year there was almost 35,000oz
Palladium
Total = 125 x 100oz = 1,250oz
Yesterday there was 4,160oz
And on the 1st January 2002 there was almost 6,020oz
Palladium stocks are fast running down.
Donald--a question for you -- fergus, 22:08:11 01/15/02 Tue
You have spoken in the past of the coming deflation. I'm confused... Is it because the destruction of money thru default would overwhelm any all attempts to create more of it? (At least, the fiat stuff, anyway.)
The money supply has been soaring for a while now. How does that impact the deflation scenario?
Thx, and glad to find a place to see your posts. I always valued them at the old place.
Test Mssg -- Delta.au, 22:07:01 01/15/02 Tue
Some Aussie golden minnows are rearing up in recent days ... including GTM and GYM among others ...
And some majors too ... LIHIR up 6 today on rumors of a possible suitor. NDY was up again today ... anybody know why?
BTW ... I own shares in GTM, and am trying to acquire the other 2 at better prices.
Cheers ... delta
Latest Lease Rates for Silver -- Sharefin, 22:04:51 01/15/02 Tue
Ted Spread -- Kip, 21:45:51 01/15/02 Tue
This spread little talked about these days, maybe because the T-Bill futures contracts now very thinly traded.
The Ted Spread is supposedly a good barometer for the health of the international banking system. In times of 'banking anxiety' the spread will widen to reflect the higher interest rates banks needed to attract offshore dollars visa vie comparable T-Bill rates.
The current 0.2~ basis point spread is very narrow from a historical perspective. I recall it over 1.5 and I think at times it has been much higher than that. Perhaps somebody has a link showing some history.
OZ Gold Index - XGO -- Sharefin, 21:42:22 01/15/02 Tue
The Australian Gold Index is surging upwards.
Todays XGO
XGO Chart
Cheap Gold -- Sharefin, 21:29:46 01/15/02 Tue
Scroll 1/3 the way down the left hand side for "Cheap Gold" by Megan Rose.
Cheap Gold
Linking in urls -- Sharefin, 21:00:04 01/15/02 Tue
Dave & others
The instructions for the html code for inserting links is linked in above on the top right hand side.
Here it is also
I'll also add some instructions in on adding in charts/images etc.
Homestk Kid -- Sharefin, 20:47:56 01/15/02 Tue
The Kitco crowd have crapped all over their own forum sending many fine goldbugs searching for greener pastures.
I have zero intent in letting that happen here.
Complain as much as one wants but I refuse to lower my forum to the depths that Kitco has sunk to.
Gold content or related will be enthusiastically welcomed.
Banal inanities will be vetoed & removed.
gap -- Dave, 19:34:33 01/15/02 Tue
what happened to the $ today, see the gap down in the afternoon.
http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYBOT_DXY0
Spinnin Silver on "thestreet"....? -- Chicken man, 17:28:20 01/15/02 Tue
http://biz.yahoo.com/tsp/020115/10006788_1.html
Nice job finny..!
Hi Donald..
Coin Prices -- Dave, 16:27:15 01/15/02 Tue
Heritage auction ending today, prices seem strong. Prices are strong on ebay also.
http://www.heritagecoin.com/index.asp?type=HERITAGE-COIN.COM
This forum -- James Nicholasson, 15:55:21 01/15/02 Tue
Delighted to find a place where materials are posted. Although I agree with certain conclusions you have expressed in the past, I think you are a reasonable man, and I have a high regard for the materials you offer to support your point of view.
Best of luck, J
Art -- GoldBrick, 13:03:43 01/15/02 Tue
Art,
I lost you're e-mail. Shoot one my way. I'm going to be close by this week-end and would enjoy some brain storming with you.
Inquiry into 37% slide of the South African rand last year. -- Donald, 12:59:07 01/15/02 Tue
SA Central Bank President says there may have been a conspiracy to manipulate the rand lower
Currency converters -- Fan of Gold [aka FOG], 11:57:23 01/15/02 Tue
A divergence that continues to fascinate
Live Rates as of 2002.01.15 18:56:49 GMT.
1.00 XAU Gold Ounces = 284.067 USD United States Dollars
1 XAU = 284.067 USD 1 USD = 0.00352030 XAU
http://www.xe.com/ucc/
Tuesday, January 15, 2002
1 Gold (oz.) = 278.700 US Dollar
1 US Dollar (USD) = 0.003588 Gold (oz.) (XAU)
http://www.oanda.com/convert/classic
Whereas, the Swissie just . . .continues. . .
"United Nations Convention on the Carriage of Goods by Sea
3. The monetary unit referred to in paragraph 2 of this Article corresponds to sixty-five and a half milligrams of gold of millesimal fineness nine hundred. The conversion of the amounts referred to in paragraph 2 into the national currency is to be made according to the law of the State concerned. { 191 } http://www.jus.uio.no/lm/un.sea.carriage.hamburg.rules.1978/26.html
65.5 milligrams
65.5 milligram = = 0.00210587390024513 troy ounce gold
1 Gold (oz.) = 461.471 Swiss Franc
1 Swiss Franc (CHF) = 0.002167 Gold (oz.) (XAU)
http://www.oanda.com/convert/classic
silver/test -- Bryan Johnson, 11:33:46 01/15/02 Tue
Hello, my handle is rhody. I am a silverbug.
Yesterday paper silver collapsed, but the lease rates
didn't. Silver leases dropped to 14% but are up to over
18% now. A 20% one day proportation increase in silver
one month leases is not a sign that this rally is over.
What ever is constricting the silver market is still
operating, as illustrated by the 7c rise in paper silver
at the close of COMEX today. This is a continuation of
the COMEX pattern seen over the last two weeks.
COMEX spot looks like a saddlebag, with initial shorting
followed by last minute buying. Why would a physical
buyer do that: buy at the end of day, just to raise the
price? This looks like price manipulation to me, so who
wants the pos to rise????? Buffet? Me? Galearis, sharefin?
I'm not doing this, so which one of you guys in manipulating
COMEX. Come on, own up!
Enought of this nonsense, this is just a test.
Silver prices battered by high lease rates -- Donald, 11:21:52 01/15/02 Tue
Silver seen to be dragging gold lower
Hello to Sharefin -- Gand, 11:21:44 01/15/02 Tue
Hello Sir.
I am a poster at the Eagle Ranch, where notice went out about your new forum. I've always used and admired your site and followed your posts on Kitco.
Just wanted to stop in and to express my best wishes.
Regards,
Gand
The Carlyle Group -- Sharefin, 10:11:21 01/15/02 Tue
Crony Capitalism
Prudent Bear -- Sharefin, 09:29:09 01/15/02 Tue
International Perspective
COGNITIVE DISSONANCE AND THE WASHINGTON CONSENSUS
8 January 2002
"We have to end the decades in Argentina of an alliance that has made the country suffer, and that's the alliance between the political power and the financial sector and not an alliance with the productive sector. The financial sector is important, but in its proper place'"
New Argentinean President, Eduardo Dulhade
Japan's Finest Hour -- Sharefin, 09:27:00 01/15/02 Tue
Japan Can Escape from the Fatal Pull of the Zero Interest Blackhole
by opening the Mint of Japan to Gold
Gold News -- Sharefin, 09:14:00 01/15/02 Tue
Gold News
NEW YORK (CBS.MW) - Silver prices turned higher Tuesday after a nearly 4 percent drop on Monday, while gold futures prices dulled, a day ahead of the Bank of England's auction.
Shares of most major metals companies followed silver higher.
On the Commodities Exchange division of the New York Mercantile Exchange, March silver rose by 4.5 cents, or to trade at $4.56 an ounce. The contract touched a two-week low a day earlier.
In a research note, John Reade, an analyst at UBS Warburg said the prospects for silver "are good for 2002 and 2003."
"The widely expected global economic recovery should benefit silver's industrial uses and lead to an increase in the identifiable deficit in silver," he said.
As of late Monday, Comex gold inventories were up 1,648 at 1.21 million ounces. Silver stocks were down 1.41 million at 103.9 million ounces.
Meanwhile, gold for February delivery traded at the $285 level, down 70 cents an ounce.
On Wednesday morning, the Bank of England will hold its fifth auction in a program of six announced last March to sell about 20 metric tons of gold. The last auction, which saw the gold sell at $273.50 an ounce, was held on Nov. 27. It was 2.6 times oversubscribed.
Venezuela raises discount rate to 38.5% -- Donald, 09:06:05 01/15/02 Tue
Attack by speculators on the currency forces the central bank to raise rates
Live charts -- Sharefin, 09:05:50 01/15/02 Tue
Gold
Silver
Please note -- Sharefin, 08:57:01 01/15/02 Tue
All the prior posts have been switched to archive #1 linked in above at the top right hand corner.
It works -- Sharefin, 08:20:51 01/15/02 Tue
Well the blocking & removal of garbage works.
I will try and clear the posts as often as possible but due to the fact that I sleep whilst the US is awake there will be a lag delay between some postings.
This problem should be fixed shortly.
Please feel free to post gold content.....
Garbage in & garbage out -- Sharefin, 08:08:58 01/15/02 Tue
Due to the garbage posts entering this forum I will be switching on the moderator feature only letting relevant posts get through.
I should have this problem fixed within a few days with a new forum utilising passwords.
Those who have fouled Kitco have no place here.
Please excuse such simple minds.....
No more -- Sharefin, 08:04:48 01/15/02 Tue
This forum is already resembling Kitco so I will shut down the free posting priviledges untill I make some changes.
Genuine posters are welcome to continue posting & I will filter the posts removing those with no gold content.
The other garbage will end up where it belongs.
I should have these problems fixed in a couple of days with a new forum with passwords & priviledges.
To those who only get their jollies off spewing crap - goodbye & get a life.
Escape from kitco -- GoldBrick, 06:00:18 01/15/02 Tue
Thanks sharefin-I also add my name to your Golden Pot parking privleges to escape the likes of the kitco snakes.
Profits of Death -- Sharefin, 05:40:13 01/15/02 Tue
PART I - CIA Does Not Deny Stock Monitoring Outside the U.S.
PART II - Trading With The Enemy
ALL ROADS LEAD TO DEUSTCHEBANK AND HARKEN ENERGY, W’s OWN 1991 INSIDER TRADING SCAM - THE MOTHER OF ALL ENRONS
Congratulations Sharefin -- KaptainKaos, 05:16:42 01/15/02 Tue
I shall be parking myself at your fine site until Bart removes the likes of ellix98 & the others who denigrate daily the name of the United States. Good luck. I hope that I can periodically add required PM insight,
Normandy bidding war news -- Donald, 03:51:23 01/15/02 Tue
AngloGold says it will not raise its bid
Chinese devaluation warning -- Donald, 02:59:29 01/15/02 Tue
China warns Japan that continued weakness in the yen could trigger them to devalue the yuan
Shadowfax -- Sharefin, 21:35:15 01/14/02 Mon
Welcome aboard matey.......
CEF you say - the safest ship on the seas.....
CEF Daily Chart
Cheers
Bad urls -- Sharefin, 21:20:33 01/14/02 Mon
Here's the last 1/2 of the prior post:
---
Then we have the POG & POS in rising uptrends in most all major currencies.
Gold Currencies
Silver Currencies
Not to mention many individual goldstocks in major uptrends.
Then there's all the cross ratios with gold pointing to a changed market now in a serious uptrend.
Then there's the market supply/demand equation that is leaning nay towering over these markets.
Then there's the global deterioration in world markets, currencies & economics.
Which shows strongly in the world indices:
Global Indices
Also specially in the Global Sharemarket Sentiment Index
Global Indices
And also in the Wilshire 5000
Wilshire 5000
Looking at the above and separating the PM markets from the equities markets leads us to view the Dow/Gold ratio and to where we currently are:
Dow Gold Ratio
Stepping back from the trees and observing what’s happening within these markets it appears that the PM’s are in serious uptrends.
Paining pictures -- Sharefin, 21:15:40 01/14/02 Mon
Now I think that the prior post was a load of bunk.
Here's a few charts to paint a different picture.
Many of us are familiar with Dabchick's Index, which if one understands the construction of the inputs then one realises that this index gives a global perspective.
This index is currently making new highs.
Dabchick Gold Index
Then there's my Global Gold Sentiment Index breaking to new highs.
Global Gold Sentiment Index
The CRB AG/AU/PL Sentiment Index, which has just bounced off a fabulous support base.
AG/AU/PL Sentiment Index
Then there's the Precious Metals Mutual Funds Sentiment Index
PM MF Sentiment Index
Then we have FIGs Index & the King Soloman's Index
FIG & King Soloman Indexes
Followed by the PM’s displayed in Point & Figure charting
P&F PM Charts
As well as numerous other gold indices all making or breaking to new highs.
FTSE Goldmines Indices
Global Gold Indices
GGSSI Index
---
Then we have the POG & POS in rising uptrends in most all major currencies.
Gold Currencies
href="../gold/SilverCurrency.php">Silver Currencies
Not to mention many individual goldstocks in major uptrends.
Then there's all the cross ratios with gold pointing to a changed market now in a serious uptrend.
Then there's the market supply/demand equation that is leaning nay towering over these markets.
Then there's the global deterioration in world markets, currencies & economics.
Which shows strongly in the world indices:
Global Indices
Also specially in the Global Sharemarket Sentiment Index
Global Indices
And also in the Wilshire 5000
Wilshire 5000
Looking at the above and separating the PM markets from the equities markets leads us to view the Dow/Gold ratio and to where we currently are:
Dow Gold Ratio
Stepping back from the trees and observing what’s happening within these markets it appears that the PM’s are in serious uptrends.
Central Fund of Canada -- Shadowfax, 21:00:19 01/14/02 Mon
Sharefin...great site matie... from the queen of lurkers..
2ND BEST WAY TO HOLD GOLD AND SILVER.. CEF
Central Fund's bullion holdings are not subject to any
gold loans or other derivative products. The bullion is
held on a completely unencumbered basis.
Central's bullion is stored on a fully segregated basis
within the vault complexes of the Canadian Imperial
Bank of Commerce in Toronto, Ontario and Vancouver,
British Columbia.
The bullion is fully insured and is audited semi-annually
in the presence of bank officials by 2 representatives of
Central Fund and representatives of Central's Auditors
Ernst and Young .
Painting pictures -- Sharefin, 20:47:56 01/14/02 Mon
Charts point to massive gold slide
Normandy bids teeter on acrimony -- Sharefin, 20:44:05 01/14/02 Mon
Normandy bids teeter on acrimony
Accounting for the ESF's Gold Swaps -- Sharefin, 20:32:31 01/14/02 Mon
Accounting for the ESF's Gold Swaps
Global Silver Stockpiles -- Sharefin, 20:27:57 01/14/02 Mon
National Defence Silver Stockpile
CME Stockpile - note this is all registered - eligable & non-eligable
CME Stockpile
Total Silver Stockpiles
Old stockpile data:
US Stocks in Gov't & private hands
US Stocks
Total all US stocks - 5.9 billion ounces
Total US Stocks
Also silver lease rates
Silver Lease Rates
Global Silver Stockpiles -- Sharefin, 20:21:47 01/14/02 Mon
This chart shows stocks at all the exchanges:
Also some more on silver inventories:
National Defence Silver Stockpile
CME Stockpile - note this is all registered - eligable & non-eligable
Total Silver Stockpiles
Old stockpile data:
US Stocks in Gov't & private hands
Total all US stocks - 5.9 billion ounces
Also silver lease rates
Rate of Change -- Sharefin, 19:58:21 01/14/02 Mon
Here's two views of the Rate Of Change (ROC) month-by-month for gold & silver:
Long term
Short term
Miro -- Sharefin, 19:55:56 01/14/02 Mon
I agree - I just posted it for the content.
I'll probably post lots of stuff here that I don't agree with but that has some PM content.
Cheers
Jere Smith - Troublemakers -- Sharefin, 19:51:23 01/14/02 Mon
There will be no attacks tolerated here nor trouble where it raises my blood pressure.
This forum is a private one where I will retain control.
I cannot set up a password system within the parameters of the forum but I can set the posts so that every single one has to be passed by me.
If certain people seek to disrupt then the continuity of this forum will be severely broken in that I will control each & every post that is made here.
There are many forums to chatter on and pass the time of day but that is not why I have started this forum.
Rather I wish to see it as a brief overview of news or events within the marketplace.
I have zero wish for disgruntled Kitco posters doing the same here as they have done over there.
That is why I have left Kitco as it is not a pleasant place.
Too many folks with high blood pressure.
No